Accelerate Action: Progressive mindsets and inclusive behaviors

The Payments Podcast by Bottomline

Episode Transcript

Zhenya Winter (host): Hello and welcome to this special podcast for International Women's Day 2025. My name is Zhenya Winter. I'm Head of Global Marketing for Financial Messaging at Bottomline, and this is a subject very close to my heart. I'm an ambassador for Women of Fintech. I sit in the organizational committee for Women in Alliances, and I'm also a member of Women in Finance 100. 

And why is it important? Well, organizations all over the world, from small local groups to enterprise companies, governments, and financial institutions are working hard to uplift the rights of women and girls. So, it goes without saying that International Women's Day on March the eighth is a fabulous chance for everyone to unite and to support the amazing efforts happening everywhere. 

Now building on this year's theme to accelerate action, we know we all have the power to positively impact women's advancement in our daily lives. We'll all agree that by challenging stereotypes, standing up against discrimination, mentoring women, and celebrating their achievements, we can help create a world that's far more inclusive for everyone. I think we'll all agree that sharing knowledge and cheering each other on is vital. To do exactly that, we are delighted to have two inspiring guests join us today to celebrate International Women's Day and shine a light on what matters most. 

So, first, let me introduce Carrie White who wears a number of hats. Not only is she responsible for partner sales at Venice Solutions and is focused on guiding strategy, ongoing improvement, and execution of partner relations, but Carrie is also the chairwoman of Women in Alliances, a not-for-profit association which helps women build their careers in alliances and partnerships through networking, mentorship, educational events, and skill development. In both these roles, Carrie could be best described as collaborative, creative, and a challenger. Welcome, Carrie.

Carrie White: Thank you so much, Zhenya. I'm thrilled to be here.

Zhenya Winter: We're pleased to have you as well. So, we also have with us Julie Ashmore-Dann, who's a highly experienced CEO and COO, Ned and trustee, a very famous motivational speaker, and a keen adventurer. So, Julie has decades of experience in fintech spanning different leadership roles in organizations of all sizes, from startups to large banks, helping them navigate the next phase of growth. Much like Carrie, Julie loves the challenge, and a few years ago, braved the crashing waves and freezing nights on a 70-foot clipper as part of the Clipper Round the World Race. Welcome, Julie.

Julie Ashmore-Dann: Thanks, Zhenya. Also, really delighted to be here.

Zhenya Winter: Fantastic. Well, let's get cracking, shall we? So, Carrie, starting with you, can you describe the work you're doing and for women and with women? Take it away.

Carrie White: Thank you, Zhenya. Absolutely. Part of the work you already aforementioned so I'll start there. Women in Alliances. So, I'm one of the founding members of this wonderful global nonprofit community, that really elevates the opportunity for Women in Alliances roles, partnerships, channels, what have you.

The whole purpose is really to elevate their ability to learn new skills, to network, to find jobs recently, in the same similar area. And so that is something that I'm very, very proud of and certainly, recently chairwoman as well. So, it's a wonderful adventure, and it's already garnered a number of different, opportunities as well for a number of women that have joined. So, we welcome anybody, by the way, to join Women in Alliances. The other things that I do are Network for Women and also, I've started a nonprofit of my own, Christmas for Care.

Zhenya Winter: Well, I mean, watch this space. There's a lot going on with Women in Alliances for sure. So, just sticking with you in a second, just expanding that slightly. Given your involvement with Women in Alliances, what's the most positive change you've seen in terms of opportunity or success for women?

Carrie White: Well, I am very proud of the company that I work for and the opportunity that it allows me to have, to be able to do Women in Alliances alongside of my Network for Women role at Vena Solutions. And at Vena, I've seen firsthand how our leadership team, of 10 executive leadership, there are six women in leadership on our team, from the chief legal officer to the chief marketing officer to our professional services, and on it goes. And so, I've seen firsthand how Vena really elevates women. We just had a recent announcement as well about our account management team, and probably 90% of those appointments were also women. And so, the fact that I work for such a fantastic company is really a testament to its character and quality. Also, to the opportunity to be able to do additional things outside of work, while also integrating work into it is really key.

Zhenya Winter: Yeah. That's excellent. It's great to see such progress. At Bottomline, we've also got equal number of women on our ELT. So, it's good to see companies doing that. But I think I'm going to move over to you, please, if I may, Julie. 

Given your career, what leadership lesson is unique to your experience as a woman in the workplace?

Julie Ashmore-Dann: Yeah. Thanks, Zhenya. So, I've had a career in banking and finances as has already been mentioned. It's been rather long, 35 years and counting. And it's no surprise to share that, obviously, it's a very heavily male dominated environment. It remains that that way even after all these years. And it took me way too many years to recognize something really important as a leader. You see, I strived or strove, actually, for many years to mirror those around me, and I suppose we would call some of those people the typical alpha male types. And so, picture this, me, I'm in my twenties. You know, I was power dressing. Pinstripe suits were the thing in the day, and I raised my voice in the boardroom to be heard over and above the others. I even straightened my hair because I didn't think curly hair was very corporate. 

Now many, many, many years later, I found myself on the board. Hopefully, I deserve to be there anyway. I didn't just one day wake up, and I was on the board, but I thought, you know, aligning myself with these alpha male types. And there I am at the board, and we did a board exercise. We got somebody in. We did some analysis of our strengths as a board, undertook some psychometrics. And whilst we were doing that, it became apparent to me that I am actually, or I was at the time, a very different personality type to those people that I was trying to mirror. And that really struck me that I wasn't being authentic.

And, of course, it's one of the most important aspects of being a leader. We need all types of leaders to create a strong team, a strong board, and I really needed to be true to myself. And when I say to other people aspiring to be leaders or other leaders out there, I'd say your voice really does need to be your own if you're really going to add value. And there is power in that diversity and dangers of group think are real. And so, my superpower as it transpires is that I am highly creative and I'm highly intuitive, and I often do see things differently to others.

And I wish I'd seen that power all those years ago and had the confidence to just stand up and be happy to be me. Curly hair and all.

Zhenya Winter: Well, I think that's right, Julie. And as somebody who values authenticity, it is the secret sauce for my success as well, even though I've not quite reached your dizzy heights yet. But Carrie, back to you. Progress on gender equality is definitely being made, but it's slow, probably too slow. 

Why is this? What are the setbacks? Is accountability an issue? And I should say at this stage, I'm not a fan of positive discrimination. But over to you, Carrie.

Carrie White: I think a weighty topic for sure. My perspective is I think a lot of it has to do with deeply rooted cultural and societal norms that do still exist today. There are certain setbacks, that have occurred in history and women have been able to rise and create opportunity for themselves. And yet, there are also still the obvious that women are still taking on the bulk of housework, caregiving, while still working a full-time job. There are certain policies as well from the parental side, depending on where you are in the world, that really don't enable and allow women to stay home for as long as they can and reenter into the workforce, and continue that continuity and that advancement as similarly.

There's still some workplace discrimination tends to sometimes be a factor. I think women also fear sometimes retaliation or some reputational damage depending on how quickly they elevate, and how it's perceived that they're elevating. But I agree, it's definitely slow. I think that the accountability is an issue, and it's very dependent on the organizations that we're part of.

In my case, again, I'm very lucky to be at a company that is very open and very progressive. Some companies are not. Some leaders are not. So, it's so dependent. And Julie's comment about having a voice being authentic, I think that is also a tremendous value to us to make sure that we continue to bring that forward, lock arms as women, and continue to raise our voices high and loud.

Zhenya Winter: Yeah. High and loud. Let's hear them. That's excellent. It goes without saying that we must all support the new generations of female leaders behind us.

This year's theme, accelerate action, certainly lends itself to us embracing gender equality and complete inclusion in the workplace. So, Julie, I have a two-part question, for you, please. Firstly, what does an inclusive workplace look like from your perspective? I'll let you answer that first, and then I'll hit you with the second one.

Julie Ashmore-Dann: So, an inclusive workplace let's remember this isn't just about women. This is about an environment where all employees feel valued, respected, and supported regardless of their backgrounds, identities, or abilities. And some of the key characteristics of an inclusive workplace, I was thinking about it, diversity. So, yeah, we've already covered that. So, a mix, that's where the strength is in that diversity itself.

And make sure diversity is at all levels, not just at the senior team or not just at the coalface in the junior team. It needs to be throughout the organization to really bring that strength. There needs to be fair treatment and access and opportunities to all as well, so that everyone's got what they need to succeed. I think one thing that's really when I was reflecting on this, that is important for me, I'm sure you'll agree, is that sense of belonging. So, we all bring our own identities, and there's one thing having an organization that says that it's open and creates these opportunities. But do you really feel that belonging? And is everybody really encouraged to express themselves without fear of discrimination or bias? And to do that, there has to be a really strong open communication culture. And a really important aspect of that is to have that open challenge, and people should actually be encouraged to challenge because organizations are made up of people. People don't always get it right.

So, things will go wrong and as long as there is that supportive and encouraging, environment where challenge is actively encouraged, people should be putting forward suggestions for improvement. And I think we're going a long way towards having a really inclusive workplace.

Zhenya Winter: Yeah. And, actually, you preempted the second part of my question. How clever of you. It was what would you recommend that we collectively do? But I think you've made that clear.

You can't have a culture of fear. You've got to make sure that diversity is all spread throughout the institution. And I think it's very important that what drives the agenda isn't just what the senior people say in an institution, but it's what those that are just new in their careers, those are looking to take the next step. Often actually it's those voices, that are going to make the most interesting content. 

Carrie, my last question is for you, please. What's the best habit, advice, or practice you can share with women in the workplace to set them up for their own success? So, what advice would you give them one on one?

Carrie White: This one is as easy as it is hard. Easy is, be your own advocate. Sometimes that's the hardest thing that you can do. You really need to be okay with shouting out and having recognition for the work that you're doing. If it's not visible, hard work heads down on its own isn't enough. You really need to act as your own PR firm. Let others know what you've done, how you've impacted the business, whether you've mentored somebody, what you're doing outside of the business as well. Employers want to really see a well-rounded employee and also, an authentic person, back again to Julie's point. 

So be your own advocate. Put up your hand for projects. Go above and beyond but document it. One of the things that I do on a quarterly basis is with my direct manager and my VP is I will create usually a one-pager, but here are all the things that I've done. Here are all the KPIs, but then here's the extra. Right? Here's the above and beyond, and here's where I've put up my hand.

So, I'm a huge advocate of being your own advocate. Make sure you are the president and chief operating officer of your own PR firm, which is all about you.

Zhenya Winter: Yeah. Absolutely. Build brand new completely. And the same question to you, please, Julie. What are your thoughts here? Best advice.

Julie Ashmore-Dann: Yeah. Thanks, Zhenya. I want to build on really what Carrie's saying. So, yes, have your own voice, be your own advocate but be part of the conversation, the wider conversation as well. And if the conversation isn't taking place, start it, and use your network as well.

And, again, if you don't have one, focus on building one. You must not underestimate the power of the network. And then, if I just may, bring in my final point around resilience. It's a subject I'm really passionate about. I speak about it very regularly because resilient people are more successful, and the question was around success.

So, what can we as individuals do to be more successful? And resilience is grown, not born. So, you can actively manage it. You can grow it. You can also lose it.

And there are three sort of very simple things that you can focus on to build your own resilience. The first is to learn who you really are, what skills and tools you have already available to you, and most importantly, where do you have gaps. The second really important aspect to building resilience is to take some risks. Taking risks does actually build resilience itself. And with that, taking risks also means occasionally you will fail, and you need to embrace that failure, because again, that's all part of the learning exercise, and you become a more resilient person as a result.

And that is actually a cycle. So, once you've reflected, you've taken some risks, you've embraced failure, you then reflect again and you go again. And that's really an important aspect for me that I want to share when we're talking about being successful.

Zhenya Winter: And it's so important, Julie, this idea that, yeah, you've got to take risks, that's how you progress your own skill set, how you stand out from the crowd, and so it goes back to there's no culture of fear. Mistakes will be made as long as you learn from them, that's fine. And you'll get a lot of admiration when you say mea culpa, but this is what I'm going to do to get it fixed. 

Well, thank you very much, ladies. Well, that brings this year's International Women's Day episode to a close. For everyone's benefit, let's keep shining a light on inspiring initiatives that empower women to chase their dreams without facing bias or barriers. Thanks to our very special guests, Carrie White and Julie Ashmore-Dann for joining us today, and thanks to you guys, the audience, for listening. 

Let's catch you next time. Thanks very much, and goodbye. 

The Payments Podcast, from Bottomline.